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Fine line between prepping and hoarding, regarding household capacity

CR - October 14, 2021

Let me start by stating I don’t mean panic buying etc. I’m a longtime Realtor, and have worked with a number of hoarder clients, prepper clients and a family member’s epic sized hoard. It’s a sad fact that many members of the Greatest Generation who lived through World Wars and the Great Depression are inundated with stuff & unable to let go, largely due to their past experiences of scarcity. A recent elderly client clung to his hoard so fiercely that he had a screaming match in my office with his daughter who had come from out of state to move him near her. She went home without him, declaring she was done. Sad and avoidable, a priceless relationship in tatters over stuff.  

My topic aims to open a dialogue on how we all can deal healthily with hanging onto and adding to stuff in relation to its actual value in a potentially worsening scenario. We likely all have a ton of preps that we have collected and are certain will save the day when needed. Me too, I’ll state right now. However, often we hang onto other crap that has no realistic future use, and just clutters up our living and storage spaces. 

I’ve had to deal with some bizarre stuff in my job, plus clearing relative’s homes. One prepper I worked with had buried 150 pounds of silver in his shop, after his son told him he shouldn’t leave it in the attic! One property I sold had 5 acres full of rusted junk, including 2 chicken barns a tornado had totaled. I had to argue with the buyer to retrieve my sign that he had already gleefully added to his newly purchased hoard and hidden in a shed.

I am really trying to downsize my own (and hubby’s!) useless junk so we have reasonable room for and can organize what will actually be useful if things go badly. My current strategy to help let things go, and what I advise clients is to ask yourself if you would buy that item again. In the case of sentimental things (tougher, certainly) it can often work to take some good pics to remember it, and pass the item along to someone who can make good use of it, or toss out as appropriate. 

I’ve had so many clients that like their own homes much better after clearing & decluttering them to get ready to sell. Let’s try to do that ongoing, so we can enjoy and use our spaces efficiently now, instead of allowing stuff to crowd us out of our own homes, or trap us in them as I’ve also seen. Our kids will thank us someday too, instead of screaming in frustration like my recent client’s daughter. 

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  • Comments (61)

    • 6
      Barb LeeContributor - October 14, 2021

      Oh, what a great post!  I think “hoarding” is a condition; prepping is a planned action.  All you have to do is watch an episode of “Hoarders” to see what that really means.  In the meantime, preppers are frequently considered hoarders, but that is an uninformed label, certainly.

      I pour so much energy into organization, inventory, first-in-first-out, and trying to make rational decisions about what needs to go into the preps.  It’s an ongoing education.  But y’know, someone might peak into my stores and call me a hoarder, even though everything is catalogued, stored in containers and up to date.

      As for hanging on to stuff, well it’s impossible to not accumulate stuff when you’ve lived in the same place for 40+ years.  But I’ve had a nagging urge to “debone” this place for a very long time.  The first plan was to get a drop box and do it all at once, but instead, we got the biggest trash bin from the trash service, and made it our mission to fill it to the gunwales every week.  And we’ve been completely successful.  A lot of it isn’t “junk”.  We were both born without the “selling gene”.  And neither of us is sentimental. I’m not going to put an ad on Craigslist and deal with the weirdos and tire kickers over minor stuff.  If we can’t fit it in the trash/recycle bins, we cut it up. Husband quickly caught the deboning fever. 

      I even gave Facebook the boot, effectively shutting the door on much of my past.  Decluttering is a mental health exercise.  So is prepping.

      • 4
        CR - October 15, 2021

        Sounds like you’re on a solid path, Dogpatch! It feels good to clear space for sure, although I confess to feeling the occasional twinge over previously well loved items that need to go. 

    • 7
      Jay ValenciaContributor - October 14, 2021

      Don’t ask my wife if I am a hoarder or a prepper. I’m actually doing much better to my defense. 

      I used to save all sorts of things like cutting off the power cord and removing all the screws and switches for my parts bin before throwing the broken coffee maker in the garbage. Sometimes my salvaging paid off in the form of other projects, and sometimes it just laid there for years for some future repair that probably will never come. 

      Last year I went through all my tools, parts, and stuff like that and decluttered though. I took a bunch of it to Best Buy for recycling, Goodwill for some, and the trash can for the others. While looking through things, it was like I was looking at some of it for the first time. At that point I knew I could probably do without it if I didn’t even know that I had it.

    • 4
      JennyWren - October 15, 2021

      I’ve moved around a lot in my lifetime and I’m ruthless! I have an annual sort out and declutter, usually around May or thereabouts. If I haven’t used it since my last declutter, out it goes. I rarely buy stuff now so as I sort and get rid of things our property stays clear of clutter. I too have trouble selling, so generally donate more useful things to a charity shop the rest is recycled. 

      My parents were from that generation and they both had a bit of a problem with saving certain items. My mum would save grocery bags, carefully folding them before popping in the drawer. In her defence, she did re-use them. My dad was a bit of a scavenger and would save anything he considered ‘useful’. When he passed, it took 6 people three weeks to go through his ‘stuff’ and decide what went where, sadly most of it was only good for the scrapman.

      • 3
        Liz Klein - October 15, 2021

        That’s the balance isn’t it? We are taught by survival shows on the television to save everything and use it right? The tin can that washes up on shore can be a drinking vessel, way to purify water, lid can be used as a sharp cutting instrument, can be polished into a signal mirror, can be used to collect berries, and on and on. 

        So if you do have the emergency preparedness and survival mindset, you will find value and use out of everyday trash and see all it’s potential. 

    • 4
      Bill Masen - October 15, 2021

      When I want to increased the items I keep for the families preps I apply one golden rule.  It has to have an alloted space BEFORE I buy it.   I hate clutter so everything has its place and it must be stored neatly, safely and out of sight. Apart from having more food cupboards than a normal house, and a second freezer  my home looks just the same as your average three bedroom brick built house.

      The only slight weakness I struggle with is firewood, when I come pieces of hardwood I often succumb and bring it home to join the woodpile, but it inevitably gets used within a few months ( English weather)

      • 4
        CR - October 15, 2021

        Lol on the firewood! We just lost a huge oak from wind, so that woodpile is gonna be years deep when it’s added! That is something we use regularly tho…

      • 1
        pint of beer - October 15, 2021

        my mom always taught me that if i bring something into the house, i need to take another thing out. 

        in my adult years, i heed to that at times, but slowly build things up and don’t take very much out. moving sure makes you declutter very quickly when you have to imagine yourself hauling all that stuff you have accumulated. 

    • 4
      Bob - October 15, 2021

      Good morning CR,

      I’m retired from the business world so business principles are used. I cost just about everything in re the total cost of possessing something.  I ask myself: would I purchase warehouse space or build a storage shed for my materials of various sorts ? If the mental answer is “no”, it gets ditched.

      If, for example, I purchase a half dozen propane cartridges on sale, they will always remain here and for items like this, I would build a storage shed. Besides saving $ when buying on sale, during an emergency, the de facto cost of this item skyrockets.  They will not be available. This is the “dollar cost averaging” principle. AA batteries with the extended shelf life ? Same principle applies and will be used.

      There is no hoarding here; just prudent preparedness.

      To mimic a General: “In combat, too much is never enough”.

       

      • 2
        CR - October 15, 2021

        Well said Bob!

    • 5
      Pops - October 15, 2021

      Timely post. The line between hoarding and stocking is only invisible to folks who have nothing in their cabinets and fridge, no tools in the garage, hire everything done and stop by the store every night on their way home for dinner and TP. We are in the middle of a retail environment where stocking vs just in time is being tested and JIT seems to be showing strain. Speaking of stores, I designed stores for a jewelry store chain, the owner once half-jokingly complained about his neighbor, a building contractor, who had a unsightly pile of lumber  or some such in his side yard. I told the boss that pile might not be a pretty as the diamonds in your safe but that lumber is his stock in trade just the same.

      I’m a DIYer, in a world of Just In Timers! We all see the problems with supply chains right now, empty TP shelves aren’t a result of people pooping more, they are the result the JIT supply chain having no backstock—because a cushion costs money in warehouse real estate. The Waltons showed the world that fast turnover makes you rich.

      I can’t remember how many times in the past preppers have been poo-pooed for worrying about a pandemic and subsequent systems disruption!!! As Madge said “You’re soaking in it!”

      I think self-sufficiency is an important, maybe the most important prep, but I would because that’s what I strive for. I have a dozen or more crates of various “parts” from and nails & screws to plumbing to electrical to basic hardware and automotive. I’ve usually lived in the country so always held on to extra parts, in fact I usually buy extra parts when I’m buying just to avoid a trip next time, or an empty shelf.  And I have lots of tools, don’t get me started, LOL

      I also have a pile of salvaged wood—does anyone realize how expensive lumber has been over the last year? I’m sort of an itinerant remodeler/2-year flipper, we moved from the west coast to middle-America last year and we’ve been doing the same for some time now so I guarantee I know the cost of stocking up. (BTW I didn’t move all that scrap lumber across country, it’s new old. LOL)

      I don’t keep empty tuna cans  or whatever some folks do, and my wife is a organizational wizard, who has a hard time keeping me in line but I do have a couple of old but functional hose bibs that might come in handy during the next surprise freeze like last years’. They and all the rest of the parts and tools I have would be just a useless hoard to someone soaking in the Just In Time lifestyle as the water gradually heats.

      • 2
        CR - October 15, 2021

        I hear you Pops! My aunt left truckloads of organized, washed out food cans, among many other crazy things. Her hoard was of unbelievable proportions, neatly organized in huge warehouse sized buildings that contained many useful and new things that sadly were spoiled by rodents. 

      • 1
        pint of beer - October 15, 2021

        what do you think the rational behind the washed out food cans was?

      • 3
        CR - October 15, 2021

        At that point, mental illness was certainly a factor. There were also hundreds of boxes of ziplock bags, garbage bags, cleaning supplies, packages of blankets, cheap tools…she had favorite items of which we found dozens. I believe she loaded up her cart wherever & whenever  she went shopping. She had the means and the space, and she exhausted both. 

      • 2
        PrepPrepPrep - November 1, 2021

        “what do you think the rational behind the washed out food cans was?” I’ll take a stab at it. Saving them for plinking? (Sorry, just had to say that!)

    • 5
      July LewisContributor - October 15, 2021

      The hoarding gene runs in my family. My mother, aunt and uncle had serious problems. It often appears in people with some difficulty organizing and making decisions, and is triggered by an emotional shock or loss. My sister and I both have sworn mutual vows that if either of us start exhibiting the behavior, we will hold an intervention! For preppers, it’s not about the amount of stuff. Hoarding is when you acquire and hold on to more stuff that you can afford, store, or organize. It’s when your stuff interferes with the normal functioning of your home (rooms can’t be used as intended – you can’t sit in the living room or eat at the table) and causes health and safety issues (fire hazards, pest problems, overloaded shelves, tripping hazards, blocked exits). 

      • 5
        CR - October 15, 2021

        Absolutely right, July, it’s in our family too. Therefore it takes some diligence as a prepper to be self aware of what’s actually useful to keep, and what just feels good for some weird reason, even though there isn’t room for it. The client I referenced had lost his wife and son within a week of each other during another escrow we had. 

    • 1
      Illini Warrior - October 15, 2021

      there is no “fine line” between hoarding and prepping – actually insulting to any real prepper >>> you’re saying there’s a mental disability there …

      there’s hasn’t been anything lately – but in the past the hoarders with the front yard filled with old pallets and crushed aluminum cans tried passing themselves off as preppers – an excuse for their behavior – mainly looking for sympathy for the county fine $$$$ they just received ….

      you’ll find a great majority of preppers are very organized and directive in their decisions what to prep – and a great many are highly educated/trained, successful and disciplined …

      just because outsiders call preppers “hoarders” after a SHTF hits <<< like Covid >> and they can’t find gloves or masks – buying in advance on advice or intuitiveness and stockpiling is hardly “hoarding” – just the opposite

      • 6
        CR - October 15, 2021

        Illini, I think if you’ll read the original post more carefully you will see there is no insult stated or implied. Rather it’s just a call to action to constructively discuss, and to be mindful of the utility of what we keep and add. Let’s keep the dialogue free of hostility, as has plainly been stated on other discussions. 

        Furthermore, since you bring it up, there actually is a fine line, as many preppers (reference my earlier post on What Triggered You to Prep) got started in prepping as a result of trauma or difficult situations that woke them up to the precarious nature of things. As July so well stated above, traumatic situations can trigger hoarding. 

      • 4
        JennyWren - October 15, 2021

        Good afternoon Illini Warrior, please don’t complain about being insulted when you are happy to insult others. Deriding non preppers about their lifestyle when you have a sensitivity to insults about yours seems a bit hypocritical.

        I believe there have been previous requests to not use ‘sheeple’ it’s derogatory and unnecessary. 

    • 7
      Stephanie ArnoldContributor - October 15, 2021

      My fam of 5 and I live in a small condo. We have way too much stuff, and not nearly enough room for pantry storage. In January of 2020 I began readying the pantry in case that Wuhan pneumonia hit the fan. I’m forever glad I did. I put “temporary” floor-to-ceiling bookcases in two upstairs bedrooms and filled those suckers with food. I explained to the kids what I was doing and why. I stocked my small under-the-stairs pantry with hundreds of pounds of staples. As of today we have just about finished everything I prepped and the shelves are getting bare again. I plan to restock it all once more before the holidays. The bookcases are an eyesore, but they kept us protected when we needed them. Maybe they’re not so temporary? 

      We also need to declutter badly. I have an outside storage unit that needs reorganizing (and half the stuff thrown out, to be frank). That unit would be an ideal place for emergency water storage. In the event of an emergency I can also tap our water heater. It’s got 75 gallons in there. 

      I plan in the medium term to chuck or donate a bunch of bulky furniture and opt for built-ins. It would make more economic use of the small space and help us get our floors clear of items. I could stand to donate about half of the adult family wardrobe that no longer fits anyone. 

      I find that I’m able to let go of things I don’t need. If something is sentimental, I take a picture of it. It’s the memory I want, not the thing. This practice has helped. When it comes to overflow of kid stuff, I chuck it in outside storage. If nobody asks for that item after a few months, it goes. But books… books are a problem. I could let go of about 1/3 that don’t bring any value to the house. But the other 2/3… Books are necessary in many SHTF scenarios. That’s my argument and I’m sticking to it!

      I have a good system for flow of kid clothing. We take hand-me-downs from family, and we donate our too-small nice stuff to another family. No waste. I love it. 

      Having the plans to declutter and actually executing them are two different things for me. Thanks for the reminder to get it done!

      • 3
        CR - October 15, 2021

        Good job Stephanie! Kids certainly add a lot of clutter to a household. Another great underutilized storage space requires getting rid of bed frames & mattress box springs and building a hollow storage box of the same height out of plywood & 2×4’s. Accessed by lifting the mattress you can get a lot of infrequently used things organized in there, 5 gallon buckets for starters. I believe you can find them pre built, but I love a good wood working project, so I built my own. As far as books, well, they’re essential! 😉

      • 1
        Stephanie ArnoldContributor - October 15, 2021

        Good idea

      • 5
        Barb LeeContributor - October 15, 2021

        I threw out trash bin after trash bin of books.  You can’t recycle them because of the glue in the binding.  The subjects were, at this point in our lives, irrelevant.  I emptied two book cases that are now full of food and food prepping equipment.  Just a couple days ago, fastened them to the wall (earthquake country), and need to put “restraints” on the shelves to prevent products from falling off.

      • 2
        pint of beer - October 15, 2021

        what do the restraints look like?

        if you have any future books to get rid of, your library or thrift store will take them.

      • 4
        Barb LeeContributor - October 15, 2021

        I haven’t come up with the “restraints” yet.  First of all I need to get some molding for the front edges that will prevent the loose shelves from rolling off the pins.  But the second thing is boxes containing jars etc that may protrude out the front.  Tight bungee cords come to mind.  Maybe even hinged wood-framed doors covered in chicken wire.

        The books I threw out wouldn’t interest most people.  Albrecht, Voisin, Savory, pasture fertility studies from the 1920s, how to make harness from the 1800s.  Upholstery books from the 1800s (reprints) How to restore horsedrawn carriages. Horses. More horses.  I still have books on horses. Shop manuals for 1980s trucks.  Nothing for the nightstand.

      • 3
        rebecca - October 15, 2021

        “Nothing for  the nightstand” <- HA! This made me laugh.

        I have some large mason jars on a floating shelf that would be good to secure. Your thought process is similar to my initial thoughts.

      • 2
        Barb LeeContributor - October 15, 2021

        I have unsecured shelves all over this house!  I’ve thought for years about making them secure from dumping their contents in an earthquake, but that was before my squirrel genes kicked in and I replaced all the books and doodads with food!  LOL!  But at least I’m moving forward.  Two shelves attached to the wall, 2 or 3 more to go, and the TV is also cabled to the wall. Not that I’d care of it perished.  We never turn it on.

        Oh, and kitchen cabinet doors without hasps.  Lots and lots of them.

        We are in the Cascadia earthquake risk zone.

      • 2
        brekke - October 15, 2021

        I’ve been looking for a way to restrain our canned goods and containers in pantry shelves too. I was looking at pressure rods, since I don’t want to damage the walls with permanent installs. Do you think those might hold up in EQ country?

      • 2
        Barb LeeContributor - October 16, 2021

        Ah! You mean like for shower curtains?  Never thought of those!  I’ve never been through a big quake, so I don’t really know if anything I do will keep stuff from falling.  But your idea is a good one!

      • 2
        Roland - October 16, 2021

         I do not think that pressure rods would be a particularly good idea for dogpatch if they are usin a bookcase for storage and have it secured to the wall with a cable. The cable will give some slack and prevent the bookcase from fallin all the way and stop at like a 45 degree angle, but that will be a lot of force to put on those pressure rods with all those cans behind it. 

        If your cupboard is secured to the wall tightly and will not fall itself, I imagine pressure rods will be just fine because you just have to deal with the cans or jars wigglin a bit.

      • 2
        Barb LeeContributor - October 16, 2021

        Thanks for chiming in Roland.  The TV is cabled, but the shelves are attached to the wall with plumber’s metal hangar strapping.  They’re pretty snug.  The shelves are narrow, no room for pressure rods, and have boxes that stick out a bit, so I’m thinking the tight bungee cord might be the answer.  This isn’t the answer for expensive furniture obviously, but I’m willing to drill holes in these inexpensive shelf units.

    • 5
      Shaun - October 15, 2021

      Very nice post – and timely too.

      My FIL died a year ago and my wife and I had to put her mother in a special care unit (severe, advanced dementia but healthy otherwise). They were in their apartment +45 years. He had cleaning OCD so the place was spotless but crammed with stuff including 50 years of every bill and receipt imaginable.

      It was a bear to clean out and now their furniture and stuff is in our house until my MIL dies.

      My wife and I agreed we will not do this to our children (all adults). What has catalyzed us is Swedish Death Cleaning.

      The Swedes have a cultural bugaboo about leaving a mess to your children so at age 60 or so, they start ‘cleaning’. Keep it, Give it Away or Trash it.

      We are on our way but let me tell you, doing this brings us face-to-face with many dumb things we have bought over the years. For example, I was able to give my sons very full tool kits to each of them from my ‘spares’. YMMV.

      Don’t hang on to stuff, hang onto relationships.

      • 2
        CR - October 15, 2021

        Aaargh, yes, the in law stash! We’re struggling through that too, much of which has landed in our garage. Hubby is attached to lots of it, of course. 😩 

      • 3
        PrepPrepPrep - November 1, 2021

        Sometimes “stuff” reminds people of relationships in a good way. I let all the older adults in my family know that I have absolutely no pressure on them to do “Swedish death cleaning.” Their choice as to what they end up with. But I am the type who will pick up some old thing and say “Remember when….” and get a nice memory from it. If I end up having to clean out someone’s stuff, I will just hunker down and do it.

      • 1
        rebecca - November 1, 2021

        It’s particularly hard when cleaning out possessions when someone dies and letting go of items and “stuff” that remind you of the person. It feels like if you throw away that vase or picture frame that you are throwing away their memory. 

        What has been helpful to me is to record a video and take pictures of their things so I can still visually look at it and recall those memories. And then if there are some particularly sentimental items, I save 1-2 of them. 

    • 3
      Mr. Mark - October 19, 2021

      Having had to relocate over 30 times in our 46 years together, my wife and I learned to avoid purchases unless absolutely necessary. Even so we often found ourselves moving boxes that were still closed up from the previous move! We decided if we didn’t need whatever was in that box for the past year or so, we got rid of it. Pre-moving day yard sales (it’s amazing what people will pay for your junk!) and Goodwill or the Salvation Army store took care of most. In our last few moves we had so little “stuff” we just donated it.

      When my Dad passed he left enough tools for my brothers and I to divide as he had multiples of just about every tool you can imagine. Still, when my sons married they each got a full tool box from my own overgrown tool stock. It always feels good to clean out and give away what you don’t need.

      We’ve settled a bit now to where we’ve been in our current home for five years. We’re still very careful about what we buy because it’s too easy to accumulate stuff. To be sure, we even have trouble buying prepping stock because we know we’ll have to move it someday…I retire in the next year or two and we’ll move to our planned permanent country home. For now we tend to stick to short term supplies instead of stocking items that have a long shelf life.

      For securing your stock on bookcase type shelving or racking…in most houses the floor sags a bit to the middle of the room. Shim the front of your shelving unit so the whole unit leans back toward the wall on about a five degree angle, then use strong bungie cords across the front of each shelf. I’ve done this in so many of the houses I’ve lived in that I finally just modified the bases to be taller at the front.

      In my shop I used to hang on to just about anything that I thought I would use later, but now I trash anything that hasn’t been used on one of my many projects in the past six months or so. My shop is pretty small so it’s easier to just go buy that one thing I need now than to deal with all the clutter in the meantime. I do keep every screw, nut, bolt and washer I run across. They’re small and easy to organize and store. Having that one right screw on hand when doing a repair job on something is invaluable!

      • 1
        Carter Murphy - October 19, 2021

        My bookcase lays flat and gets a bit sketchy at times when it rocks on the carpet. Thanks for the idea of shimming the front.

        What do you use to do that, just a piece of scrap wood?

      • 2
        Mr. Mark - October 20, 2021

        Yes, I just used a piece of scrap wood about 1/4″ to 1/2″ thick. depended on how bad the floor was. I used a single board cut to the width of the cabinet because the floors sometimes leaned in other directions, too. If the cabinet rocks at all the shim will work its way out, which is why I eventually modified my cab’s with a permanently attached shim stained to match the cab’. 

      • 1
        Alicia - October 21, 2021

        I’ve done this for desks and other items I want to be stable because of the carpet strip/pad discrepancy.  I found the cheap wooden shims available at Home Depot or Lowe’s easy to use and stack if necessary.  

    • 1
      PrepPrepPrep - October 21, 2021

      Sometimes I ask myself “How many of x thing would I really need, if SHTF?” and if the answer is one, and I have ten, I might think about getting rid of five to see if I suddenly remember a use for them. I certainly won’t get rid of something that I like, that might be useful, that has sentimental value, even, just because someone in the future might get irritated. If something is starting to annoy me or be in my way, I will deal with it at that time. I am not planning ahead for “what if I decide I don’t need the thing.” I do not expect my parents or older family members, people who are said to be of a certain mindset because they are chronologically in one generation or another, to change their habits or get rid of things I personally can see no use for because it might inconvenience those of us who are younger who might have to dispose of some of their stuff if they meet their demise before we do. If/when it comes to that, if I am in charge of said stuff, I will keep what might be mine to keep, make sure other things go to the appropriate people, and give away or toss the rest. I save some things that have been listed here as junk or as silly hoarding, and I smile to myself, because I know that “they don’t make them like they used to” and so I save the thing, even if I might not have to use it. I have had to use something I saved for years, and was probably a bit smug when I pulled out the thing and made the repair. As for any younger generations that might have to “deal with” my stuff, they have all sorts of options, and I do not plan my life around what someone might think about me in the future when it no longer matters to me. If I die 5 minutes from now, they will have some work to do.

      • 1
        PrepPrepPrep - October 21, 2021

        I have to add to that second to last sentence, that I am not concerned about what they might think, but if I know something is going to be very difficult for someone to deal with, for one reason or another, I will consider disposing of it at some appropriate time.

      • 2
        CR - October 22, 2021

        I will admit, my opinion is influenced by having been the one stuck cleaning up the hoard too many times, and seeing elderly clients who are no longer able to manage all that they’ve kept. At some point it can become an anchor.

      • 1
        PrepPrepPrep - November 1, 2021

        CR, having to do it many times would put a damper on the whole experience, I am sure.

    • 2
      July LewisContributor - October 21, 2021

      I’m binging Hoarders now and it’s all your fault!😂 on the plus side I am organizing my laundry room

    • 3
      Alicia - October 21, 2021

      I have always been on the more organized side of the coin. I think Marie Kondo is a soul sister :-). One favorite Valentine’s gift was garage shelving! I’ve also read quite a bit about organizing and decluttering as it’s a love language or something. A couple of principles that struck a chord with me: 1) if you can’t find it, it’s the same as not having it, 2) Storing and maintaining an item is part of the cost of ownership (like Bob mentioned in the business model). These have made me consider the storage locations and costs of everything (in stress: time searching for, maintaining, re-arranging, etc; actual footprint/volume in storage area vs. frequency of use). Then I assess how they fit into my value system – preparedness, self sufficiency, helping others, environmental impact, etc. Some things just bring me joy (those messy, messy pets). I am a purger and married one as well so we don’t have an overly excessive amount, but still do have areas to declutter. I can’t seem to get to the backlog of photos. Interestingly, my partner was not a prepper in mindset, but supportive of mine before the pandemic which then brought him fully on-board. Getting evacuated for 2 fires in the same year didn’t do it, but the pandemic did.

      At the start of the pandemic, our dining room became our overflow pantry. At some point, I hit my clutter limit. I re-arranged and added shelves to a closet. I also got more serious about maintaining an inventory and tracking rates of use (how long a roll of TP really lasts). I’ve actually donated to a food bank a few times from our prep pantry as our dietary needs/limits evolved and/or expiration dates approached.

      I do have some consumable items that I’m more concerned about running out of than others. And it seems irrational like a fear of spiders or heights. Would it be the end of the world if we ran out of dish soap? That’s when I feel the line of hoarding approaching and check our use rate of it.  

      • 2
        CR - October 22, 2021

        Sounds like great progress Alicia! I share your fear of not having soaps. 😉 I made some years ago, but found the whole lye process is kinda freaky to me.

        Also keep in mind, expiration dates on foods are largely a suggestion, which might be a useful post for someone to do? I’ve come across several articles to that effect, referencing both food and dry pill form meds remaining useable for much longer than expected when well kept (dry, dark, & cool.)

      • 3
        Alicia - October 22, 2021

        Thanks, CR. Good for you trying your hand at soap making.  

        Expiration dates is where I differ with my spouse. He is much less accepting of going past it especially on medications. I’m pretty much at a smell it first and then eat it level. And somewhere on this site, the medication research was referenced – and didn’t alter my husband’s views. We all adapt to our situations – I am fortunate in mine and know it. 🙂 And food banks won’t (can’t?) accept donations past the date. Most of my food donations are from changes in eating patterns (some foods now cause issues) and conservation of storage space: Rice keeps well, but we don’t eat THAT much of it regularly.

      • 2
        Sir Henry - October 22, 2021

        You can share this study with your husband that was ordered by the US department of defense who had a large stockpile of medications and they wanted to know if they had to throw things out at the expiration date or if they would still keep their potency afterwards. The FDA conducted the study and found that most medications will remain fairly potent (88% remained potent 1 year after the expiration date, with most being potent 5 years after and some 20 years) far after their expiration date. Very few were actually harmful after the expiration date. 

      • 2
        Alicia - October 23, 2021

        Bummer, that link is not taking me to a study, but a home page. I did do some searches and found some additional info about the Shelf Life Extension Program (SLEP).  What I didn’t find in my short search is the list of approved or studied medications for extension which was my hope for your link.  A manufacturer is not motivated to have a long shelf life for both profit and liability.  

      • 2
        Gideon ParkerStaff - October 23, 2021

        Sir Henry, I don’t think you need to update your link because it does seem to work for me. But when I opened it in a private window it took me to a home page, so I also see what you are talking about Alicia. 

        For those who can’t open the link, here’s another alternative link that I looked up and seems to be the same research article. You can scroll down and read the full thing or Download the entire full text PDF.

      • 2
        Alicia - October 23, 2021

        Thanks Gideon!  That worked for me. 

      • 2
        JennyWren - October 22, 2021

        LOL, I too have a fear of running out of soap. I have also tried (and failed) making soap, like you CR, the lye thing had me flummoxed and the results were uninspiring. Still, I learned something, I am terrible at making soap! I am a good gardener, however, so I grow some Saponaria or Soapwort (I don’t know if you have this in the US) This plant is also one that I have planted on the waste ground out back. It’s a pretty little plant with a lovely delicate perfume. You can make a soapy liquid from all parts of the plants, but the saponins are concentrated in the roots. It’s a very gentle soap and is useful for washing fabrics as well as your skin and hair.

      • 2
        CR - October 22, 2021

        Great idea JennyWren! I grow lots of random stuff, and that sounds like a fun one to try! I actually liked most of the soap I made years ago, just the process was scary & I never really loved the handling of toxic (& caustic fumes, go everywhere?😳) lye part, so on to the next experimental project, after all there are so many useful things to try! 

      • 2
        Alicia - October 23, 2021

        Maybe we need a support group?  Wait, we do here!  🙂  This is interesting plant.  I live in a very dry location (Southern California) which wouldn’t support its environmental needs.  That last statement also raised my eyebrows: “We would not suggest washing in the soap or ingesting any part of the plant as it is reasonably poisonous.”  That is probably true of many soaps.  

      • 1
        CR - October 23, 2021

        Sigh, always a downside, right? My area is too dry also, actually. I guess I’ll just keep my soap stash stocked up.

    • 2
      lonewolf - November 1, 2021

      I’m of that generation where we hoard stuff that “might come in useful”, we do a lot of skip/dumpster diving, but we have a rule excluding prepping stuff if we havent used it in 12 months then it goes to the tip, the only thing this dosent apply to is my store of timber.

      • 1
        Robert LarsonContributor - November 1, 2021

        That’s a healthy way to approach things. 

    • 2
      Owen's Mom - November 7, 2021

      I really like your post even though it touches on a sore spot.

      Sadly I come from parents that suffer from the clinical definition of hoarding. Before I visit I have to binge watch a few episodes of “Hoarders” to de-sensitize myself. From personal experience, I believe there is a wide difference between a true prepper and a hoarder. A prepper is motivated by acting on a plan and a hoarder is compelled by (ostensibly) OCD which is apparent by their hoard that’s usually haphazard/random. (Although my mom has small collections of odd things like carefully washed and stacked styrofoam trays that chicken and meat are sold on. Why?!!!) 

      This is a terrible inheritance and heavy burden (figuratively and literally) my parents are leaving my siblings, me and their grandson. As a result I’ve become a minimalist. If it doesn’t add function, beauty, safety or necessity to our lives it doesn’t belong. The pandemic taught me how to moderate that and we made accommodations for strategic stockpiling.

      I’ve joined a Facebook Buy Nothing group to get rid of items and incur less waste. I started my Swedish Death Cleaning at 40 so I can concentrate on cleaning my parents house when the time comes. (Among one of the more ridiculous things I have to buy in preparation is a metal detector to check all the clothes for hidden jewelry :0)

      • 2
        JennyWren - November 8, 2021

        I had a similar experience when going through my parents things. They weren’t medically defined hoarders, as I mentioned in a previous post, they came from a wartime generation and grew up poor, so learned the value of things. I wish I had thought of a metal detector. I would also recommend opening every single tub, tin and jar. We found money bills neatly folded or rolled in quite a few. Some were out of circulation.

      • 2
        CR - November 8, 2021

        Thanks for sharing your story, Owen’s Mom! I agree that preppers are not hoarders by definition and appreciate the parameters you mentioned. The intent of my post was to help clarify just where we differ, as it can get a bit blurry once individual styles come into play (and minimalistic relatives observe).

        Also it’s important to be aware, as you and I are, that ongoing purges are necessary as we age to prevent a tendency to cross that line from both age related apathy, or our heredity catching up 😳 & compelling us to hoard.

        Our preps age too, here’s kind of a funny share: I’ve been strategically serving poor long suffering Hubby & I some organic canned beans that expired in January 2017. Have eaten them periodically (most recently last week) over the last couple years, so far every can has been sound and delicious, with no noticeable loss in quality. I don’t recommend this, of course, just happened to buy too many a while back & felt bad about tossing. So, is that a bit of hereditary hoarder cropping up or what? I excuse myself that it’s useful to test this out while good medical care is readily available….

        Also, in reply to JennyWren, my relative had hidden valuables all over too. I’m sure we missed a bunch, as we weren’t about to paw through some of the really contaminated stuff. 

    • 3
      Owen's Mom - November 8, 2021

      Thanks Jennywren and CR. I do want to point out that there’s also a huge difference between a hoard and the joyful clutter of daily living. I’m certainly not proposing the minimalism I’ve adopted in reaction to my parents hoarding!

      I think it’s safe to say you’re NOT a hoarder if: you aren’t in danger of a visit from the city inspectors, you take out the trash regularly, you can easily get to your bed and sleep on the entirety of it, your possessions are not kept in piles (a shape resembling a mountain or snowdrifts up walls), electrical outlets are accessible or you at least know where they are and if you had a rodent enter you would be able to see evidence immediately and be willing address the problem.

      My 3M half mask with the P100 filters from my BOB have come in handy for the occasional purges. I never go home without it.

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